AO Forum :: -> Formation of regional trade organisation

AO Forum :: -> Atlantian Oceania -> Regional Discussion

Formation of regional trade organisation

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 08:23 AM

King Falcon is unfortunately unable to attend the meeting, but agrees to ratify any treaty ratified by Lamoni and Khazaron.

Falcania

Winging It Since 2004

Posts: 776

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 04:15 PM

Θεοτοκόπουλος quickly scanned the proposed treaty. “These ‘sanctions’ you refer to in section 3…what might they be?”

Commerce Heights

Royal Scribe

Posts: 191

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 06:23 PM

"The potential sanctions would have to be and discussed and also agreed.

"I'd suggest we'd have some sort of administrative sanctions, such as not being able to attend the next meeting and for extreme cases of repeat offenders expulsion from the organisation. Though this would only be for repeat offenders, and those that continuely flout the TDJ rulings."

"And then potentially some trading sanctions, what sanctions should be in place for the AORFTO

Bazalonia

Eating A Bazalope Burger

Posts: 774

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 07:04 PM

"The charter appears to be suitable enough, however I have one question: What exactly is meant when the charter refers to an AOFTO Agreement? Are these agreements on what can be exported/imported etc, are they on the stances taken to non-member countries? A more detailed explanation of an AOFTO agreement would be appreciated."

United Meridian

Scribe in Training

Posts: 33

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 07:16 PM

Darin Daun, Carrar's diplomatic representative read over the Trade Charter. About to talk, he paused considering if his subjet was of enough importance, then decided to speak.
"So a member nation is alowed to place trade embargoes on non-member nations but their only allowed to place trade embargoes on member nations if they have been the result of a TDJ judgement. I believe looking at section 4, clause B that we have to follow trade embargoes forced on non-member nations by member nations. It's a sturdy idea but suppose a member nation depends on certain import-exports from a non-member nation that has been blocked by another member nation, and if this member nation wants to keep these import-exports, they have no choice but to resign from the AORFTO. Now this isn't faultless but it would be better if we did somthing like section 2, clause D. If any member nation want to put trade embargoes on a non-member nation they should have good cause to and have 2/3rds of the members votes to do so because it effects all of AORFTO. And I agree the TDJ should deal with all member nations that are brought to judgement but if a member nation wants to put trade embargoes on a guilty member nation the TDJ should make the final dessicion with member nations. Not that there are any nations that i know of here that completly depend on each other this is just a suggestion and frankly not of the greatest importance."

Carrar

Scribe in Training

Posts: 31

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 07:41 PM

"Let me explain what is meant by clause B of Section 4. Let's say we have 3 nations A,B & C. Nations A & B are member nations and C is a non-member. Nation A has a total trade embargo against Nation C, Nation B has full trade with Nation C. This clause is aimed so that goods that originate in Nation A cannot be sold to Nation B legally and then on-sold to nation C. In effect manouvering around an embargo. However asny goods that orginate in Nation B are not effected by nation A's embargo against nation C."

"I Like the idea of member nation embargoes being required to be approved by the TDJ. On the TDJ, If the TDJ decides that sanctions are required. Then all member nations would be required to implement the sanctions, particularily if the sanction happened to be a temporary trade embargo."

"Clause C of Section 4 forbids any trade embargoes or sanctions being imposed by any individual nation that are not sanctions or embargoes put in place by a TDJ judgement."

to the United Meridian representative "I'll start working on that now."

Bazalonia

Eating A Bazalope Burger

Posts: 774

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 10:06 PM

"I can say that I am in full opposition to the idea that this new organization can regulate which nations can embargo the others. Embargoes should be used as a diplomatic tool used to coerce nations into compromises and as a warning for progession into sterner actions, something that individual nations should manage, not trade organizations. This new idea isn't much better, and I can give a simple example. Krytenia and Starblaydia currently are embargoing each other. If Starblaydia were to join this organization, under this new rule one of two things would have to happen. Either Starblaydia would have to lift its embargo on Krytenia, something that's not going to happen, or a number of SDL nations would have to embargo Krytenia, something that's not going to happen either. The only solution, then, becomes Starblaydia resigning from this organization. If a larger regional crisis occur, then others would be forced to resign due to situations like this until only one political side would be represented, for example, say, the SDL. It would then make this organization obsolete, since everything could be instituted by the SDL."

"Also, the fact that Bazalonia as well as another SDL member gets executive membership gives the SDL an unfair advantage in this agreement. Either Bazalonia needs to give up executive membership or other political groups should get additional executive membership spots for equality's sake."

"Other things may need to be fixed, but these seem the most glaring points."

Geisenfried

Dedicated Scribe

Posts: 93

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 10:45 PM

"Thank you for raising a number of issues, if the TDJ where to be involved in determining embargoes and trade sanctions then first, it would add a layer of unneccesary beaucracy, the powers of the TDJ would have to be perfectly balanced and either be too restrictive of be too lenient, either option leads to the twisting of the purpose of the TDJ and also takes away from the TDJ's prime role.

A bit more information, both Starblaydia and Krytenia have expressed interest. I have information that suggests that the Starblaydi - Krytenian embargoes could be resolved by both joining this organisation. Though that is a matter of Starblaydia and Krytenia to resolve. Needless to say if they both join by the rules of the organisation they would not be able to impose sanctions on each other.

Addressing the last issue you raised by the Bazalonian position on the Executive membership, we have no plans for a special founders seat in the Executive Membership. However we do feel that the place that Bazalonia has in the AORFTO, as it's architect, should be recognised. At current There will be 4 Executve Members, The Neutral representative which I believe would be either Carrar, United Meridian or the United Capitalizt States. The ASPIRE seat which is to be determined by members of the AORFTO who are members of the ASPIRE alliance, the SAAS representative as determined by the SAAS AORFTO members and with Bazalonia taking the current SDL position.

If there where a situation where we either changed alliances or withdrew from the SDL then Bazalonia will take the appropriate slot for the Executive Membership.

Bazalonia

Eating A Bazalope Burger

Posts: 774

Posted: Jul 30 2006, 11:31 PM

"This treaty seems fair to me. But I have some interogations about the fact Bazalonia has to be an executive member. Bazalonia should be an executive member as the founder of the organization, not as the unvoted representative of our alliance." Mr. Denis said after taking into account what everyone said before.

Septentrionia

Royal Scribe

Posts: 139

Posted: Jul 31 2006, 08:10 AM

Fauxhan International Airport

Qutari Pilot: Fauxhan International Airport, this is Qutar One requesting final clearance for landing on runway 2-9er

Fauxhan International Airport: Qutar One, this is Fauxhan International Airport you have final clearance to land on runway 2-9er, we're tracking you in.

The Prime Minister was feeling rather uneasy and the plane went in to land. He had been worrying about the meeting of delegates ever since he'd agreed to the meeting, he knew the meeting made sense, that Qutar desperately needed to get rid of the isolationist shackles. But he knew that aside from a few meetings with the Starblaydi leader, this was the first time The Islands of Qutar (aside from in sport) had shown its face to the outside world, and he needed to make a good impression. Oh and he was late

As the Qutari delegation along with its security team made they way off the plane they were met by the amoured limousines, and the Head of the Bazalonian Federal Police, Reynold Heffernen

Peter Stone: Hello there I'm Prime Minister Peter Stone, and this is Geraint Kozel Minister for the Economy, and this is Nicholas Saunders, Minister for Foreign Affairs. Sorry for the late arrival but there was a domestic situation that needed our presense I hope you can understand. Has the meeting got underway yet?

Reynold Heffernen: We understand perfectly, and yes the meeting has finished the first day of talks and a proposal draft has been put forward. You can find copies in your hotel rooms, along with transcripts of today's meeting.

Peter Stone: Thank-you very much Mr. Heffernen, speaking of the hotel what are the security arrangements from you side of the fence?

Reynold Heffernen: Well as briefed out to you before, we shall escort you to the Hotel where your staying, the hotel has been swept twice by the bomb squads, and there will be a Bazalonian Federal Police presense inside and the around the hotel, and the meeting hall. What may I inquire are your personell going be doing so that we may assist them.

Peter Stone: My security team will be stationed outside our hotel rooms, and two will be with our delegation in the meeting room, don't worry as you've already noticed they are wearing suits they will appear to be aides. Well shall we get going to the Hotel then?

The ride there was quite smooth, and as they got nearer to the hotel he noticed the crowds of anti-capitalist protesters waving placards against the meeting. Thankfully they were seeming to be when controlled by the BFP.

When they got up to the hotel rooms, the security did a sweep of the rooms for electronic bugs but found no trace.

Peter Stone: Looks like we can talk in private, so Nick, Geraint what do you think of the proposal so far?

Nicholas Saunders: Well it seems to be okay, I will have to go over a few points at the meeting tomorrow morning, such as the sanctions. I mean what kind of sanctions, if not defined what will the maxiumum sanctions be?

Geraint Kozel: Seems fine to be, as a beginning but I like to talk about trade tariffs between countries and free trade.

Peter Stone: Well hopefully the meeting will go well tomorrow

The Islands of Qutar

Scribe in Training

Posts: 25

Posted: Jul 31 2006, 08:12 AM

CEO Steven once again raised his voice in the discussion:
"It seems that many members of the delegation have expressed concerne over Bazalonia controlling a permanent executive membership, because this would lean the Executive Council over to SDL control. As founder, Bazalonia deserves to be cited as a notable member in the organization, so therefore I do express approval towards the AORFTO "Headquarters" being placed in Bazalonia. However, Bazalonia as a permanent member may not be suitable. As a suggestion, why not allow Bazalonia an executive position other than the 4 seats occupied by the alliance and non-alighned executive seats (in essence, a 5th executive seat) till a specific date? This way, Bazalonia could ensure the organization is steered in the right direction and then when the date arrives where Bazalonia must leave the council the 5th seat could be dissolved and the normal 4-seat council returned. This gives Bazalonia a position of control (in order to steer it in the right direction) in the organization during the early stages, however this control would not be permanent and would only last a specific amount of time before Bazalonia would have to be voted in like every other country. If this is not suitable, perhaps it is best that Bazalonia not occupy it's own executive seat unless voted in by the SDL."

"I also have a small question. The SDL will be voting in it's exec, as well as ASPIRE and the SAAS, but will the non-aligned countries be voting in there representative? Or will the executive council be deciding who represents the non-aligned nations?"

This post has been edited by United Meridian on Jul 31 2006, 08:16 AM

United Meridian

Scribe in Training

Posts: 33

Posted: Jul 31 2006, 05:22 PM

Θεοτοκόπουλος listened intently to all of the petty bickering about who would be in charge. “After reading the proposed treaty more carefully, it seems that it is not a treaty to promote free trade, but, in fact, a treaty to restrict trade, by means of these ‘sanctions.’ Section 4 also seems to be intended to restrict trade, though since it only deals with trade between member nations and not people within those nations, it is less of a concern to me.”

Commerce Heights

Royal Scribe

Posts: 191

Posted: Jul 31 2006, 05:32 PM

Feeling a bit overwhelmed by the rapi-fire discussiong that seemd to be going in light of the presentation of the initial draft of the agreement, Minister Adam Kum keyed his attention on what the reprsentative from Geisenfried said and nodded his head in assent.

"I concur with the honorable representative from Geisenfried, on both counts actually. I do not like the idea of this new organization being able to tell member countries whom the can embargo and can't. It should be up to their own internal legislative devices to decide such matters. I think this should be more about encouraging and promoting healty economic growth, not focusing on limiting it.

Also, as strange as it may be to here an SDL nation say this, I agree on the possibility of the Strategic Defense League having to much clout in this new organization. However, I think rather than focusing on limiting just one, we should push to make sure that none of the alliances gain to much power. This should be focus on economics and leave the political aspects of the region out of it. To that end perhaps we should look into either limiting or eliminating the ability of the regional alliances to act in this organization?"

Minister Kum looked around to see the reacions from his two cents.

Khazaron

The Red Devil

Posts: 515

Posted: Jul 31 2006, 06:03 PM

After hearing these comments, CEO Steven spoke up:
"I would like to make a few comments regarding the opinions of Commerce Heights and Khazaron. Firstly, to Commerce Heights, I would like to agree that there are certain areas of the treaty which limit free trade, however I disagree that this organization seems more oriented towards limiting free trade than promoting it. It only appears that way because we have not set down guidelines regarding tariffs, international trade, free trade, etc. The only actual trade guidelines we have set down are in regards to the rules of trade embargoes between member nations as well as non-member nations. Every free trade organization must have set regulations regarding trade sanctions: one of the most important goals of any trade organization is ensuring that trade sanctions which hurt the overall economy of the organization can be stopped immediately. I believe that the rules set down for trade sanctions do not in fact increase trade sanctions, but decrease them, because the various rules of embargoes in the charter are set limitations to the type of embargoes that can be set down. Therefore this organization will increase the free trade in Atlantian Oceania and also decrease the embargoes that occur as well, because without these guidelines limiting embargoes, trade embargoes could be launched against various nations at anyone's leisure. Once the guidelines for lowered tariffs and open trade have been set down, the actual aspect of free trade in the organization will shine through."

"To Khazaron, I agree that it is important that we not allow any international alliances to gain too much power within the organization. If I am correct, however, your concern is that with the current system proposed that SDL will have too much control over the organization. With the proposed system (the 4-seat executive council system), each of the 4 political aspects of AO (ASPIRE, SAAS, SDL, and non-aligned nations) will be equally represented and therefore I believe that political influence within the council will not be a problem. However, the matter still remains that Bazalonia could potentially control a 5th seat on the council along with another member of SDL, shifting the balance of power. I agree on this point. As an editorial on my last comment, I would like to say that I believe with Bazlaonia controlling a 5th seat too much power will be concentrated on SDL. With all respects to Bazalonia as founder of this organization, a second SDL member on the council shifts the balance too much.Therefore, if this is allowed at this point, I would like to propose that a vote be made whether or not Bazalonia should control a 5th seat on the Executive Council."

This post has been edited by United Meridian on Jul 31 2006, 06:14 PM

United Meridian

Scribe in Training

Posts: 33

Posted: Jul 31 2006, 06:49 PM

"We'll let's end the day there and give people some time to ponder there decision, We'll vote first thing tomorrow. Another reason for the break is that a representative from the Islands of Qutar has just arrived. Thank you all I think it really looks like this organisation"

OOC: I'll give a few days break allow people to do some IC politiking. Richard Menszae will not be campaigning for a 5th seat. He will sit and let the democratic process work.