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AO Forum :: > Competition Archives > AOCAF 19 Brainstorm Thread

Posted by: 95X-Scottfire Feb 27 2007, 02:42 AM

Since 95X isn't really a household nation name in AO, and an 'at least we showed up' nation to AOCAF 18, and there's been a lot of talk about AOCAF 18 results and participants, I thought maybe we'd benefit from an out of character thread to post thoughts/concerns/ideas for AOCAF 19. If this isn't cool, feel free to delete it.

I'll start with my thoughts/observations (even though I've only been in the region since Sept. '06, so I'm guessing they'll sound a little 'outsider-ish'):

1. Let's just move on from AOCAF 18. So, there were some concerns about certain teams' performances and game scores and what-have-not. There are in almost every major sport and league - sometimes, teams fall not because they've gotten better or worse, but because the team doesn't change much and their opponents have learned how to exploit their opponents weaknesses.

2. If people are concerned about who's hosting it, then let's let someone else do it. IIRC, the other nation that wanted to host 18 hadn't hosted AOCAF before, but felt they could and submitted the hosting bid. If so, then let's let them try.

3. Unless there really is some gross misconduct issue, or they don't want to participate; don't prohibit the last champions, or the last host from participating in 19. I'm not defending/condoning any actions of anyone; but seriously, this is just a 'game within a game.' Our real-life lives aren't at risk.

4. Maybe time for some different divisions? If not mens/womens; maybe an 'anomaly' division for horses, conjoined twins, gelatinous blobs, or who/whatever else wants to suit up and take the field?

Posted by: Az-cz Feb 27 2007, 04:28 AM

1. Agreed

2. I was the other nation and had hosted other stuff before.

3. I certainly don't think either should be banned, but it might be nice if they chose not to participate for one cup. That would do away with a lot of the ranking bonus they might have accrued and guarantees fairness.

4. NO NO NO NO NO! There should only be one AOCAF. We don't need extra divisions and things. If Mil wants to enter horses, he can enter horses.

My one other idea would be to move the AOCAF to the time of the Baptism of Fire on main nation states. There are always a TON of AOCAF teams double booked at that time (quite often doing hosting as well), whereas the BoF is relative down time so there might be more roleplaying then.

Posted by: Bazalonia Feb 27 2007, 05:13 AM

1. Agreed

2. Certainly I think it would be wise for the nations involved to keep a low profile for now. Though I'm not for specific sanctions, I can't say for certain whether they did or didn't cheat. I don't think they did but I can understand the accusations being levelled.

3. Bazalonia is thinking of an AOCAF 20 hosting bid

4. Not big on special events, the thing about AOCAF is that it's meant to be fun... forbiding things like horse and other anomaly competitors justs doesn't sit well. I like our AOCAF as it is.

5. I like Az-cz's timeing suggestion.....

Posted by: Bettia Feb 27 2007, 05:31 AM

My tuppence worth...

I third Az-Cz's suggestion, although I would still probably use AOCAF to give my under-21s a run-out. Having the AOCAF at the same time as the BofF would probably see WC-participating nations free to RP more often (unless they have puppets in the BoF, that is).

I definately don't agree with the divisions idea. The group format is fine the way it is. If there are ways to improve this, they could be introduced as part of the competition - for example, if the FAB were to host AOCAF again, they would introduce bonus points for scoring more than three goals in a game, cos we're nice and Takilan like that and we would nothing more than to see more goals scored in games - it gives RPers something more to write about.

Oh, and...

QUOTE (Az-cz @ Feb 27 2007, 10:28 AM)

If Mil wants to enter horses, he can enter horses.

QUOTE

Fnarr fnarr

Posted by: Az-cz Feb 27 2007, 10:36 AM

dang it Baz. I was looking at hosting AOCAF 20. I can't host the next one cause I'm currently doing the WC, but 20 is definitely an option.

Posted by: Sarzonia Feb 27 2007, 09:00 PM

1. If people are griping about results and the host hasn't done anything wrong but just scorinate and post results (which I don't know because I haven't been following it), people should just realise [expletive] happens and get over it. If there are *mistakes*, everyone makes them. We're only human. However, if people are complaining because of genuine wrongdoing by the host, that's a different matter. The "punishment" should be prevention from serving as host, not prevention from participating.

2. Give someone new a chance to prove himself or herself. Any new host could screw up, same as any veteran host. Any new host could turn out to be a GREAT host like Fmjphoenix did when he and Bedistan hosted WC 27. Veteran hosts should make themselves available to help out with providing feedback/suggestions if called upon.

3. See #1 for my take on this issue. Don't prevent people from participating unless they've been real [rear ends] as participants (looks at LE and Spaam as prime examples of people who wouldn't be welcome in a Sarzonian invitational tournament because of their OOC behaviour).

4. I'm absolutely against different divisions (such as a men's, women's, equine, disabled, gay, etc. etc.) The theory behind the World Cup (and as I've seen it, AOCAF) has been not to exclude anyone's characters from competition in the tournament. The die all roll the same anyway.

MO, YMMV

Posted by: Lamoni Feb 28 2007, 03:16 AM

1. Agreed. I know that *I* did nothing wrong, but if people want to think differently, I can't exactly stop them. It's like Sarzonia said, "[explitive] happens."

2. AOCAF rules already allows a nation to host, but then that nation can't host the next three AOCAFs. I agree that new nations should be allowed to host the AOCAF, but this was also Myrtannia's first time hosting an AOCAF.

3. See response #1.

4. NO!

Posted by: Starblaydia Feb 28 2007, 07:24 PM

QUOTE

1. Let's just move on from AOCAF 18. So, there were some concerns about certain teams' performances and game scores and what-have-not. There are in almost every major sport and league - sometimes, teams fall not because they've gotten better or worse, but because the team doesn't change much and their opponents have learned how to exploit their opponents weaknesses.

No matter how you look at it, two people scoring each other to the final against each other is not something I'd like to see happen ever again and I still am not happy with AOCAF18's finishing positions.

QUOTE

2. If people are concerned about who's hosting it, then let's let someone else do it. IIRC, the other nation that wanted to host 18 hadn't hosted AOCAF before, but felt they could and submitted the hosting bid. If so, then let's let them try.

I'm staggered by what is essentially a 'pick someone who's never done it before, they hopefully won't screw it up but I dunno' attitude to the AOCAF.

QUOTE

3. Unless there really is some gross misconduct issue, or they don't want to participate; don't prohibit the last champions, or the last host from participating in 19. I'm not defending/condoning any actions of anyone; but seriously, this is just a 'game within a game.' Our real-life lives aren't at risk.

Prohibiting people from entering the AOCAF is beyond dumb, and something only worth raising in IC posts. All AOCAF18 has resulted in is myself becoming more disillusioned with this passtime, along with never, ever voting for Lamoni or Myrtannia to host anything ever again.

QUOTE

4. Maybe time for some different divisions? If not mens/womens; maybe an 'anomaly' division for horses, conjoined twins, gelatinous blobs, or who/whatever else wants to suit up and take the field?

Don't even think that the AOCAF needs to be made more complicated with more effort required to compete.

Oh and on a side note, if anyone wants to put up a sign-up thread, feel free to.

Posted by: Myrtannia Mar 1 2007, 12:25 PM

QUOTE (Starblaydia @ Feb 28 2007, 05:24 PM)

QUOTE

Funny, no one raised this much hell in AOCAF XVI - when Lamoni and Vilita/Turori scorinated each other into the final against each other. Why such a fuss now? Just because Lamoni and I happen to be friends in RL? Does that automatically mean we're cheating? Don't mean to stir the hornet's nest, but this perplexes me. I can understand why people were upset about some of the results, but, as Sarz said,

QUOTE

people should just realise [expletive] happens and get over it.

All I can do is offer my word that there was ABSOLUTELY NO FIXING OF RESULTS in AOCAF XVIII. There, that's enough.

Whatever. It's over and done, and I just wish people would drop it. I don't plan on hosting anything again, in case anyone was afraid of that.

As for separate divisions in AOCAF? How about... NO.

Posted by: Starblaydia Mar 1 2007, 12:31 PM

QUOTE (Myrtannia @ Mar 1 2007, 06:25 PM)

Why such a fuss now? Just because Lamoni and I happen to be friends in RL?

Bingo.

Posted by: Myrtannia Mar 1 2007, 12:51 PM

Again, does that automatically mean that we're cheating? Jumping to such assumptions is offensive to me, though as I said, I can understand how such assumptions are made. But no one has any proof that there was any wrongdoing?

Are we guilty without any evidence to back it up? I could go on, but I don't want to sound like a broken record. That, and continued bickering isn't going to help anyone's case.

Posted by: Starblaydia Mar 1 2007, 04:49 PM

You can never ever prove it, that's partly the point of course, unless someone completely impartial was standing over you as you put the results into the post.

Saying 'but I showed the result to Baz' is perhaps the lamest attempt to prove non-cheating I've ever heard.

Whatever.

Posted by: Sarzonia Mar 1 2007, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (Starblaydia @ Feb 28 2007, 07:24 PM)

I'm staggered by what is essentially a 'pick someone who's never done it before, they hopefully won't screw it up but I dunno' attitude to the AOCAF.

I'm staggered by the whole mentality of "they've never done it before. They might screw up."

Commerce Heights is a veteran host, is he not? I don't need to remind you how much he and Oliverry -explicitive removed-ed up World Cup XXVI, especially since you tried to use Presidential powers you didn't have to clean up the mess. Now THAT was I-don't-want-to-ever-see-them-host-anything-again major.

Posted by: Starblaydia Mar 2 2007, 03:48 AM

Until someone has proved to me through their actions that they can post scores with regularity, total impartiality, and - god forbid - perhaps a sense of style about them then, yes, they might well screw it up if they've not done it before.

CH proved to me (and hopefully everyone else) that he's a pedantic little brat during the course of that cup while Oli proved the reasons why he was only ever allowed to score himself to Cherry Cup and American Football cup victories. Needless to say I won't be voting for either of those two ever again unless their opponent is The Belmore Family.

It is about the person more than whether they've done something before, but there's nothing like experience - both for the potential host knowing what's expected of them, and for everyone else to know what the host will be doing during the cup.

Quite simply, every time you elect a host, you get what you vote for - end of story.

Posted by: 95X-Scottfire Mar 11 2007, 01:35 AM

I had a thought about ending the debate of when AOCAF 19 should start - some say now (read: yesterday), but others are saying to hold off for a little while: since NS doesn't run in real-time, we could simply run it regardless of whatever else is going on, and if it happens at exactly the same time as NSWC (or whatever it is), we'll simply say that even though it might be happening on this forum at the same real-time, it's actually a year (ahead or behind) whatever year the other event is. Or if not a year, something like 1 to 6 months or something.

Oh, I've been meaning to ask this burning question from AOCAF 18:
if a player has two legs, two arms, but two heads, do they count as one player or two? I can't see why they'd be two, since two brains controlling two different sides could actually be a disadvantage.

Off to reset all my clocks! (DST begins at 2 AM tonight in the States.)

Posted by: Lamoni Mar 11 2007, 01:42 AM

QUOTE (Starblaydia @ Mar 1 2007, 02:49 PM)

Our point is that you can't prove that there was cheating either, Star. Just move on, and forget about it. Bickering about it won't help.

Posted by: Delesa Mar 11 2007, 02:27 AM

there is a lot of fighting over something just over the internet, which is a new opion of mine, as when I first started i was pissed off about lossing, but now its like i have seen the light, its just role playing.

As for cheating, i think i would be willing to host the AOCAF as i see cheating as dishonourable and is a shame that people do such a thing.

Posted by: Krytenia Mar 11 2007, 07:06 AM

QUOTE (Starblaydia @ Mar 2 2007, 08:48 AM)

Then there's me, whose worst CC performance came in CC18 (hosted by Krytenia...) and who seems to actually do worse when scorinating for himself.

Impartiality's a pain in the 'arris sometimes...

Posted by: Delesa Mar 11 2007, 12:35 PM

Never mind on the whole hosting thing, im pretty sure that Bettia can handle it

Posted by: Ulzaxid Mar 11 2007, 05:33 PM

95X,

The purpose of holding it after the world cup isn't for IC reasons. It's for OOC reasons. Many of us currently still have teams in the world cup, and as long as those teams are still in the cup that will be the main focus of our energy. If we do it during the Baptism of Fire there's more time to devote to the AOCAF.

As for the player with two heads feel free to do whatever you'd like.

Posted by: Commerce Heights Mar 11 2007, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Starblaydia @ Mar 2 2007, 08:48 AM)

CH proved to me (and hopefully everyone else) that he's a pedantic little brat during the course of that cup…Needless to say I won't be voting for either of those two ever again unless their opponent is The Belmore Family.

I can see how your personal dislike of people has a strong impact on their hosting abilities. (And no, I’m not defending WC26.)